Curse

JoDiamonds · Jul 22, 2005, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ednemak

well this guys a ranger with barb trap and pin down and all he does is run

If I had a setup like that, it's all I'd do, too. Sounds like a fine setup; the strategy with it should be to stay away from the enemy.

The thing is, you describe it as griefing, but it's absolutely the same tactics that someone tring to actually win would use.

If you think running away increases your chance of winning, it's the right thing to do. And that situation is common - only one side can gain the advantage of standing toe-to-toe, so one side should often be choosing to run. (I'm not saying 100% of the time, but far more than 0%.)

That said, I wouldn't mind a button for offering a draw. And if the draw is turned down, maybe then you could start a long timer, and if no one wins after that, make it a tie. Maybe also require that it's dropped to 1 vs 1. Any 2 vs 1 should be able to win, in the long game.

JoDiamonds · Jul 22, 2005, 02:12 PM // 14:12

I don't disagree with everything here, but you state or imply there are no reasons for some of them. There are definitely reasons, if still debatable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KelvinC

-You need to wait 30 seconds to arrange the match. This is a bit long, this period should be variable depending on the popularity of the arenas at different time.

Sure, I guess. Not an unreasonable thought. Still, I don't care much, so unless this is done as part of a lot of other changes, I'm fine with Arena not wasting time on it.

Quote:

-Before you start the fight, you have to wait 15 seconds for the gate to open. I think the original design goal is to communicate strateghy at the beginning. However in practise I barely need that long for random teams.

For slow computers. It's not uncommon that someone doesn't even enter the arena until most of that time is up.

(Also, "barely needing that long" kind of implies that it's the perfect amount of time, doesn't it? You need that long, so good, but not more.)

Personally, I don't want this changed at all.

Quote:

-After you lose, you have to wait 15 seconds to go back to the arena. This is pointless.

I'm glad I have the opportunity to at least say, "good fight", or have a very brief discussion with the enemies, or allies. Sure, most people don't take the opportunity, and maybe you just don't care, but it's not pointless. Also, it lets people figure out that the game even ended and look around. If you got kicked back to the waiting area the moment the last guy died, it would be rather anticlimactic.

Quote:

-If you lose but you want to start another fight immediatly, you have to wait 15sec to return arena, then load the arena screen (3 sec), then click 'enter mission' and wait. (a see alot of people just quit the game and relogin to save that time)

FWIW, You don't have to wait 15 seconds. You can teleport if you care that much.

I don't disagree with the concept in general, though. Maybe during the 15 second cool down after battle the losers should get the "Enter Mission" button on their screen, so they can choose to jump into another battle without having to go through load screens. That would at least streamline things for players who just want to get to another battle (which, admittedly, probably covers most arena players).

Quote:

-in some maps it is advantagous to camp. However when all the teams do that it will be a time wasting experience.

This is true, and definitely some kind of design issue. I don't even know what happens if a game ends in a zero-death tie (for instance, on the maps with countdown timers). The problem is that there's a bunch of maps where being the agressor doesn't pay; if there was some reasonable in-battle benefit, it would help deal with this problem.

Quote:

In summary in average for 1 minute of fight, there is 1 minute of wait

While what you say is true, you are also twisting things around a lot. For a thirty minute fight, there is also one minute of waiting. Or for a 15 second fight. And you don't always have to wait the full times for any of these things; depending when you enter the arena, you wait 0-30 seconds, not always 30 seconds, so an average of 15 seconds. And you don't have to wait at the end of battle if you don't want to, which is another 15 seconds.

So, in short, it's only 30 seconds of waiting on average, and that's true no matter how long the fight is.

Which isn't to say there's nothing to improve, but twisting facts around to support your argument isn't a good idea. =)

Quote:

=== possible suggestion ===

- shorten the open gate timer (unless waiting for a player to load)

I disagree, because I -do- use that time for planning and seeing who's on my team. I certainly don't want it much shorter, and am happy for it to stay where it is.

Quote:

- promote teams not to camp (redesign some maps and rules)

Agreed. This has to be done very, very carefully though. I know I'm scratching my head some about how to fix this.

Quote:

- if you lose, you should be able to immediately register/arrange another fight WITHOUT needing to going back to arena. (of course you can choose to)

Completely agreed. I suggest just adding the "Enter Mission" button as soon as the fight is over, and if you "Enter Mission", you don't leave the old arena at all until your next fight starts. This cuts down on totally extraneous load times.

Possibly, there could also be a "Go to arena" button along with "Enter Mission".

Quote:

- Going back to arena for every lose is inefficent. One suggested example is using the deuce system. For example, auto team changes only happens when the winner lead the loser by 2(lets say) winning matches.

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying the losing team shouldn't be broken up, or just that players shouldn't go back to arena (as previously discussed)?

Anyway, some good thoughts in there. Good post.

Calimar · Jul 22, 2005, 02:36 PM // 14:36

If you are two, you should be able to chase someone down: traps he can leave behind, not on both sides. You just need to hit him once every 10-15 seconds and he'll eventually die. You have to split up and get him. Grievers are everywhere, but do not expect me not to fight to the very end - if I were him, I would've done about the same thing, trying to kill one of you at a time. Of course if one of you is a monk... well... pretty little chance. But you have to catch me anyway.
I do not expect anyone to give in just because he's alone. If you can't kill me, then it's your fault. I'm not trying to grieve you: I'm challenging you.

But I agree on the "offer tie" button - let's say after 2-5 minutes without kills, have it pop up, or something like that. Of course, tie is accepted if every member of a squad accepts it, on both sides.

Also, not agreed on reducing time before gate opens. Battle plans, knowing the others skills in random teams, and casting buffs on each other all take some time. Time that I usually use to the last second

Lorelei · Jul 22, 2005, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ednemak

dude a 30 minute tiemr for 4v4 arena is moooore then enough
no team lasts that long, and im not gonna change my war to fght runners and lose to everything else

im on 150 minutes

I found out her bra size and her relationship status

shes 28 aahahha she cant get enough of me but still timer now

Hmmm, I think every female would knowabout the proverbial 2-minute timer...

Nebrix · Jul 22, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Can't even take out a lowly ranger. lol oh man. I sure feel bad for you. lol NOT... common. just kill him. if there is just one of him and a few of you, it should not be that hard. sheesh... I hope you all quit and he won... cause that's just plain and simple SAD... if you could not even kill a ranger by himself.

Oh and by the way you silly people. BMPs are HUGE. convert them to JPG (the Industry Standard on the interent) and you will not have a problem posting them.

Oh yea. you can't even kill a ranger... so maybe you just didn't know... so I guess its forgivable.

A good ranger could easily kill a warrior, throw dirt, some heavy damage preparation skills, dust trap to put on blindness again, and then just spam him with marksmanship skills and blindness or dodging attacks before you kill him.

The problem occurs if the warrior has Purge Conditions/Mend Ailment etc (which i must say they don't usually) or if a Monk with those skills can remove the blindness.

Thomasuwoo · Jul 22, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

While I usually bring a sprint for such runners there are times where someone has made just a purely defesnive character with NO other purpose then to take a beating. Maybe if nobody has been ressed in 5-10 minutes the team with the most dmg delt wins?

quanzong · Jul 22, 2005, 09:50 PM // 21:50

I got owned by ranger too, I think he stops and puts snare in ground I get 1 good hit on him, and then he uses it and runs.
But of course I myself is a runner because IM ALLWAYS THE LAST MAN STANDING in my group! I'm really good at running in HoH, those funky europeans and brainy koreans cannot get me, they try 4 with 4 but I just run through the area with elements and monks, I find that they dont slow me down rather than warriors.

Ednemak · Jul 23, 2005, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

Can't even take out a lowly ranger. lol oh man. I sure feel bad for you. lol NOT... common. just kill him. if there is just one of him and a few of you, it should not be that hard. sheesh... I hope you all quit and he won... cause that's just plain and simple SAD... if you could not even kill a ranger by himself.

Oh and by the way you silly people. BMPs are HUGE. convert them to JPG (the Industry Standard on the interent) and you will not have a problem posting them.

Oh yea. you can't even kill a ranger... so maybe you just didn't know... so I guess its forgivable.

are you joking, or are you just stupid..

every time i did my combo she would have about 60 life left.

she makes a barb trap

then waits in a narrow place so i cant avoid it

I somehow manage to avoid it and then she runs

i get too close and pin down

then poison

run some more

then she laughs

then we talk

then she runs some more

she couldnt touch me though she killed me when I went downstairs to eat

I had the pleasure of meeting her again today in a 2:00 minute game where u get resed in the shrine and all she did was ditch her team and run...not even fight

O and my friend left 15 mins into that game